911 IMS Question

"macanamera" (macanamera)
03/26/2015 at 10:25 • Filed to: None

I know the 996 had IMS issues, but I don't know about the 997. I think I remember that early 997s had IMS issues too, but I don't know how long it lasted. Help? Were all years of the 997.2 ok?

DISCUSSION (93)

Brian Silvestro > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:28

Yeah I've seen the internet say some of the first 997s had the issue but it was never backed up or repeated ever. Just to be safe I'd only ever personally buy a 997.2. Plus they look better.

macanamera > Brian Silvestro
03/26/2015 at 10:33

Kinja'd!!!

how do you feel about this? its manuel of course...I don't love that its a cab but what can you do

Brian Silvestro > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:38

but what can you do

buy one that's not a cab

The only 997 I've driven was a 997.2 S cab. It was nice. But the coupes just look so much better.

macanamera > Brian Silvestro
03/26/2015 at 10:41

Kinja'd!!!

dis one doe isnt S but blue doeeee unfortunately its a 4 doe

Brian Silvestro > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:42

fuk da 4

when looking for them for sale, just check the "coupe" box, so temptations like these will be harder to find

DrScientist > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:46

all 997.1's (2005-2008) have the same 3.6L engine from the 996.2's (2002-2004)

(i think 2008 was still 997.1)

macanamera > DrScientist
03/26/2015 at 10:47

so 997.2 is good to go?

macanamera > Brian Silvestro
03/26/2015 at 10:47

lol

but like...

convertibles are also like fun and stuff

Flat Six > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:50

If you want a convertible get a Boxster! Back seat of a 911 Cab is not very useful (Coupe / Targa backseat is much better)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:51

K-Roll is here to help!

As you know, the 997 is split into two groups: 997.1('05-08) and 997.2('09-12)

The first group does still have the IMS issue as the M97 engine is not that different than the M96 in the 996. The difference is that with the M96 in the 996, you don't have to disassemble the entire engine to replace the bearing as you do with the M97. Now, some early 997s have the same M96 as the 996 and don't need a full disassembly of their engine to change it, but you have to really look for them based on VIN and engine code.

The 997.2 use the 9A1 engine which is the same used in the 991. It doesn't suffer the same issues as the 997.1, but it may have that carbon buildup issue as with most DFI engines.

Here are some excellent reads to help out. :)

http://imsretrofit.com/ims-101/

What are your intentions?

Brian Silvestro > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:52

jesus christ you sound like rusto

ZoopZoopLoops > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:53

997.1 does have IMS problems. Failure rate isn't as high as the 2000+ 996, but the risk is there there.

It also cannot be replaced during a clutch change. It requires opening up the engine.

No first hand experience, just internet knowledge.

macanamera > Brian Silvestro
03/26/2015 at 10:54

rusto is a champ

Brian Silvestro > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:54

I know but he buys convertibles too for no reason other than "want"

PEOPLE CAN ONLY BUY THINGS THAT I LIKE EXCLUSIVELY AND NOTHING ELSE

Flat Six > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:55

Yes - 997.2 (2009+) doesn't have that problem. However not all of the 997.1/996 used the same bearing so they are not equally bad.

macanamera > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/26/2015 at 10:55

I'm looking for a 997.2, needs to be manual, preferably coupe, preferably S

In a perfect world, it would be a manual 997.2 S coupe, blue on tan. I'm not too picky about mileage, I just don't want it to be crazy.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 10:58

How much wanna spend? And does K-Roll get a free ride out of this?

DrScientist > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 11:02

correct. they had switched the bearing with the updated engine in the 997.2

if youre really interested in taking the plunge... head over to rennlist. become a member, and read, read, read... there's pages upon pages of the details on the updates to that engine.

BKRM3 > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 11:03

Porsche of the main line, eh? They're local to me. Want me to go test drive it for you? =P

All 997.2 cars are IMS-free. The engine was redesigned to eliminate that configuration entirely.

CaptDale - is secretly British > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 11:27

Or Turbo, they didn't have the issue.

macanamera > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/26/2015 at 12:29

Hopefully around 60k, and of course. K-Roll gets free rides regardless of this.

macanamera > Brian Silvestro
03/26/2015 at 12:29

I know. I'm sorry I forgot that rule, don't be mad at me plz

macanamera > BKRM3
03/26/2015 at 12:30

awesome, and yeah def go check it out if you feel like it! I'm not totally sold on it...the mileage is really high, but otherwise it's nice....

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 13:18

Good stuff. You can find 997.2 between $40-70k so you should be in the sweet spot for some good ones. Manuals may be a bit tricky to find but it can be done. Any particular colors in mind?

macanamera > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/26/2015 at 13:51

blue on tan would be ideal

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > macanamera
03/26/2015 at 14:01

Then this is gonna be a fun search. Have you considered searching forums for a car? Rennlist and Pelican Parts have excellent classfields for cars that may be of some good use. I'm partial to Carrera White and Speed Yellow with a black interior. Hell, we only have P-cars with black interiors so I'm a bit biased on that.

Where about will you be looking? I'd fancy helping you search for one.

macanamera > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/26/2015 at 15:16

speed yellow is out of the question, Carrera white is awesome

And I've been looking through porshe pre owned because their CPO warranty is fantastic

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 00:29

All non turbo and non GT3 997.1 cars can def have IMS death

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 00:30

But Jeremy Clarkson told me to buy the F430 Spider before I met you.

He said any guy who isn't fat and bald is an idiot for buying the coupe over the spider.

Flat Six > macanamera
03/27/2015 at 00:41

Here is something to consider. I got this blue on tan manual 997.1 for 26k. If your budget is actually 60K, you can afford a new engine on the off chance that IMS goes kaput. However your IMS will probably be fine, in which case you will have saved 34K for a few years until the 997.2 or even 991 depreciates into your range. That is my strategy anyway.

Kinja'd!!!

Manuél Ferrari > macanamera
03/27/2015 at 01:13

anyone who has actually driven a high power convertible sports car on the street knows they are fun as fuck.

also plz buy 997.2 C2S Cab, C4S Cab, or GTS Cab

Thank you

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/27/2015 at 01:16

Wow, so some 997.1 cars are actually worse than 996 cars because the IMS bearing is way more time consuming to replace?

And what do you know about how much the 9A1 engines get carbon build up compared to other company's DFI engines? I haven't noticed any power loss yet at 55,000 miles. And last time I researched it I couldn't find any Porsche owners complaining about carbon build up. But people say that Fords and Audis and MINIs get carbon build up after only 15,000 miles.

Manuél Ferrari > macanamera
03/27/2015 at 01:17

A guy I know just bought a 997.2 C2S Cab with 12,000 miles on it for $65K. And it has Manuél inside.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 01:35

Yeah...I mean "worse" is a very subjective term. But for all intent and purposes, lets just say from a mechanical standpoint, the '99-01 cars are the best, the '02-05 cars aren't as bad, and the '06-08 cars are the worst, but they're all mechanically flawed to say the least, thanks to Porsche's cost cutting then.

I'm not sure of exactly how much carbon buildup there can be on a 9A1, but it really shouldn't be any more than what you'd expect from any modern DFI engine is my guess. The 9A1 has also been out for about 6 years now, the M96/M97 has been around since '99. We might not find out any issues for a few more years because most P-cars aren't driven enough to have the mileage where we'd notice any issues. I'm talking past at least 100k to my knowledge.

Ford's EB engines do have very noticeable carbon issues, not sure on all of them, but the F-150 was the most wildly known of the bunch.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 01:38

I forgot to mention one thing!

This isn't all 996 and 997 engines just to be clear! All the Turbo, GT3, GT3 RS and GT2 RS motors don't have this issue whatsoever. They are perfectly fine. It's just the 3.4L and 3.6L in the Carrera and S models that have this issue. You can buy any one of the high-powered motors with confidence, it's just a bit trickier with the lowest trim models surprisingly...

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/27/2015 at 01:40

wow such interesting info!!!

I would have guessed that the older cars had more issues but the 99-01 cars are best. We should buy one!

Carbon build up is no fun. The new Lambo V10 mixes port injection and direct injection to clean the carbon build up.

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/27/2015 at 01:45

I did know that!

Probably why ze Turbo and ze GT3 have held their values way better

996 GT3s are expensive!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 01:47

Not to mention the 996/997.1 are port injection. So the most "traditionally" modern 911s have the most fatally flawed motors...-_-

I like to think of them as 944-911s, just change the bearing on a scheduled interval and the engine won't grenade on you a-la 944 timing belt failure but much worse for a 996/997.

We should buy one(or you can buy me one because I have a particular one I want for under $20k *wink wink nudge nudge* pls). I'll buy you some pizza rolls.

DFI and PI as a combo is the best in terms of efficiency and performance in my opinion. Every performance car should have both.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 01:49

How expensive are they now? I'm seeing some decent 996 Turbos going for $35-45k right now, I want them to stay below $50k for a few more years for obvious reasons..

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/27/2015 at 02:23

Haha that is ironic that the most traditional of the modern motors was the most flawed

No more new cars for us. I am fighting the urge to buy a car. I know that if I do it now it won't be because I really want it. It will be because I'm sad about stuff and trying to fix it with another possession..

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/27/2015 at 02:31

I can't find any nice 996 GT3's for under $65K!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 02:35

Or you could buy me a car. That's always an option, good or bad. ;)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 02:35

It's gotten to that point huh. Cripes.

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 08:14

lol really? Damn didn't know that

macanamera > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 08:51

ugh the availability in so cal must me so good...there are a lot less here

I just found a C2S with 60k miles for 55 lol

Manuél Ferrari > macanamera
03/27/2015 at 11:46

dude then it's TOTALLY worth it to fly here to buy a car!

You can save big money

I'll test drive the car for you before you come out

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 11:48

Yeah haha the TG episode on the F430 is amazing

Stig races the coupe and spider and the spider is like 3/10th of a second slower around the track. JC says they are basically the same instead of the spider being a floppy and crappy version of the coupe.

Then he says that unless you look like him you should get the spider, haha

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/27/2015 at 11:49

Yeah true, haha

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/27/2015 at 11:52

the good thing is that neither ze Porsche or ze F430 were purchased cause I was depressed about a girl. Each bimmer was. But ze true sports cars are untainted :)

I should spend money on exhaust instead. Ze Porsche deserves an IPE valve tronic exhaust. It wants to breathe freer and sound like an F1 car.

macanamera > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 11:54

It really might be worth it. It's probably cheap to ship too...like a grand or two.

Manuél Ferrari > macanamera
03/27/2015 at 11:57

it probably is no more than $2500 to ship using a really trusted company with great insurance.

And the drive would be even better. You would have the road trip of a lifetime

I drove the spider home from AZ. That was quick. I kind of wish it took longer. It felt so cool to bring a car home from out of state.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 12:27

Or buy me something..I'm trying to put that in ur mind pls... (O_O)

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/27/2015 at 12:34

Haha I think I need to adopt you

I guess I'm old enough to be your Dad, haha

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 12:37

You can be my second dad, the one that buys me awesome things.

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/27/2015 at 12:38

Who is going to be my second dad who buys me awesome things?

My dad doesn't buy me anything. He makes me work and he gets moar of the money I make for the company than I do, haha

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 13:04

Hmmm...Imaginary second dad?

Manuél Ferrari > K-Roll-PorscheTamer
03/27/2015 at 13:50

Time to eat some magic mushrooms and imagine one up!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 14:16

NEIN. Arts and crafts will suffice.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 14:34

halp. i need Silvestro Car Psychology

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 16:24

with what

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 16:27

I promised myself I wouldn't buy a car this year

But it's only March and I already want to break the rule

And I also promised myself that if I broke the rule it would only be for a car that is already going up in value so it would be a sure bet to be worth a ton in 20 years

But I want to break that rule too

I really want a used 2014 blue R8 V10 Coupe de Manuél

There is one by me for $135K

Such a good deal

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 16:33

well I'm not going to tell you not to do it. But I will tell you it won't appreciate. I'll also tell you, you don't need either of the M3s or the 911. The R8 is a great daily.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 16:40

I would trade the BMWs for it

Because real sports cars are better than sport sedans

And that would be Jalop as fuck to have an all-Manuél setup with 2/3 being gated. And 0% of the cars would have the engine in an incorrect location.

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 16:51

YA I know. And if the R8 becomes un-dailyable (somehow), you still have the 911 with semi-usable backseats

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 16:55

Yes this is my thinking:

R8: Daily "Option A". Nice and high HP and Manuél and exotic-ish but not too nice. I won't have to worry about employees seeing it. After all it's just an Audi. Problem with the Ferrari is that even though was cheaper than a new R8 it's still a Ferrari. Some people lose their shit when they see it or even the key. They assume you take advantage of everyone to afford it.

911: daily and can be used to shuttle around a child or carry a third adult in a pinch. It would become the beater. And the only fuel efficient car.

430: weekends

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 16:58

Yes. That makes so much sense. Gonna be honest, I don't know which I'd rather have, the R8 or the 430. I'd have to drive them. But people who don't know cars are weird.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 17:03

There is only one way to know for sure - I need both so I can tell you EVERYTHING before you buy your future 430 Manuél, R8 or 458

Which also means I'll need to get a 458 at one point too

How come we'd both rather have a bunch of cool cars than one super expensive car and one beater?

For some reason 430+R8 is more exciting to me than one $265K car.

The 430 and R8 are similar in some ways but also very different.

The R8 is like being inside an A4, except you have a big V10 behind your head

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 17:05

Yeah I'd rather have a few than just one. Having more experiences is better, isn't that what life is all about??

Interesting points you make. Have you test driven it yet? Send me the link to the ad!

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 18:06

Yes! That makes life better. And different cars are better for different situations. And cars break or need service and then you can drive another one.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/…

It's ALMOST perfect. If it had carbon side blades it would be better. And maybe regular paint better than matte.

But dat price for a 2014...

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 18:08

holy shit it's a 2014!?! I thought it would be a previous gen. This is such a NP! fuck it looks nice, and dat diamond quilt....must buy

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 18:52

Yeah! It's a fucking 2000 and FOURTEEN!!

And yes dat diamond quilt and white stitching on the black. Mmm so tasty.

And the side blades could always be changed...

I guess whether or not I need to rush something depends on whether I break both rules or one.

If I only break the rule about not getting a car this year but keep my rule to buy something that's going up in value then I need to HURRY and trade the bimmers in for a TR.

But if I break both the rules and get an R8, which will keep depreciating and may never appreciate, then there is no hurry. If this 2014 is selling for this price now then these cars may become even cheaper as the months go on. You and I like the gated shifter and so do most people on this website. But most people with money are idiots and will like the new R8 better because DCT and stats and updated infotainment.

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 18:55

Yeah the new R8 does not appeal to me at ALL, it's looks are about on par and it doesn't have dat gate anymore. So why the hell would I get a new one over the old?

Yeah there's no rush. However, there is the matter of the BMWs depreciating the more you wait. I don't know if the E46 will depreciate as much, but the E90 certainly will.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 19:00

New one is ugly, has terrible steering, and does not have the good lord Manuél inside. It's an epic fail.

Yeah haha the ironic thing is that it's the M3 you like that's dropping like a stone. I bet I can still get over $20K for the E46 and I paid about $24,500.

The E90 is worth WAY less than what I paid for it. I think I paid around $55,500 plus $2500 for the extended warranty.

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 19:08

Lol dat disparity

So now you're left with those problems. In the end, it's all up to you.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 19:15

would you disown me if I traded in just the E90?

your dream of the E46 going away would not be realized, haha

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 19:27

lol R8>E90 so who gives a fuck

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 19:47

Yesss true!!

And I could still get tacos in sketchy parts of OC with the E46

I just realized something awesome. Once the new building is done I can drive the 430 to work some days. Cause I can park it in the other building. Most people wouldn't see me driving it. And if they did I could just say it's one of the new businesses's cars.

Hell I could make some money off it. My dad is most probably going to hire someone to drive his cars to weddings for wedding photos. People pay bank for that. I bet a red spider would be a popular selection for wedding photos, especially at beach locations.

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 19:50

Yeah people would drop mad cash for a Ferrari 'vert. All they have to hear are those few words and you'll be in the money!

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 19:54

then i can use the monies for more cars!

also i need to figure out how to get him to let me be a partner in the new businesses even though i don't have any time to help out

cause if i was a partner then i could dealer plates! i wouldn't have to pay sales tax when i buy a car for my own use. i could just drive it for a year or two and sell it and not lose as much that way

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 20:14

MMMMM DEALER PLATES

they are literally worth more than their weight in gold

learned that while working at ccc

they're so useful

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 20:21

tell me more!

what other special powers do i get?

do i not have to pay registration?

will i get out of more tickets because i can say "sorry officer, i was just testing this engine out before i decided whether to buy it to resell"?

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 20:25

well in NY (I don't know if it's different in other states), once you legally have a dealer plate you can put it on literally any road legal [and in some cases, non road legal(think MC12)] vehicles for as long as you like without having to register it to anything.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 20:26

OMG OMG OMG

I need to find out what the special powers are in CA

Must DD race car

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 20:29

yeah that's possible I've heard stories

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 20:32

soo cool!

also do you know if Audi is still taking orders on the current R8?

if so i wonder if they have to discount the cars to use up manufacturing capacity while getting ready to build the new cars because people are waiting for the new car

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 20:41

that might be something to look into

who knows maybe they do. This way you can get regular non matte blue (or black, I really like black on that generation), manual, and carbon 'blade.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 21:09

ahh yis i do love black for this car too

but i would feel like a traitor for not getting blue

if i was ordering i would go:

Non matte blue exterior paint

Carbon fiber side blades

Black wheels

Yellow brake calipers

Interior leather either dark brown or black (hard choice)

Diamond pattern

If black leather then yellow or white stitching (also hard choice)

If dark brown leather then need to review all stitching options. Maybe white. Maybe tan. Not sure

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 21:13

I agree with everything except the yellow calipers, too much different colors. I'd just leave that option off to save money.

I'd 100% get the brown, brown interiors are just so great for some reason. Maybe white stitching with it? Hard to decide.

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 21:23

I forgot to say that I would probably only do the yellow calipers if I did the black interior with yellow stitching. That way there would be a consistent theme with the yellow and black isn't a color so there wouldn't be too many colors.

Yeah I think brown is best and more unique cause everyone goes black. White stitching would probably be best. Mmm so nice

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 21:28

dat luxury tho

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 21:49

i never saw this medium brown interior on the r8:

Kinja'd!!!

Brian Silvestro > Manuél Ferrari
03/27/2015 at 21:56

eh looks tan-ish to me, like the dark brown better

Manuél Ferrari > Brian Silvestro
03/27/2015 at 22:16

yis true. dark brown always wins. you are right. you're always right